Must-listen: Anne Applebaum and Brian Klaas discuss corruption and authoritarianism on "Hell & High Water" podcast
I usually want to post more than “you have to listen to this interview,” but I just caught up on an episode of the “Hell & High Water” podcast from last month that really says it all—highly recommended:
John Heilemann talks with Anne Applebaum and Brian Klaas on the eve of the one-year anniversary of the January 6 insurrection. Applebaum, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author and staff writer for The Atlantic, and Klaas, an associate professor at University College London and columnist for The Washington Post, are experts on the breakdown of democratic institutions and the rise of autocratic movements in America and around the world. Heilemann, Applebaum, and Klaas look back on what took place a year ago at the U.S. Capitol and what we know about it now; gauge the progress and prospects of the House Select Committee investigating those events; and assess what the potency of Donald Trump's Big Lie and the embrace of political violence on the right could portend for America’s increasingly fragile democracy. They also discuss Klaas’s new book, Corruptible: Who Gets Power and How It Changes Us, and Applebaum’s latest, Twilight of Democracy: The Seductive Lure of Authoritarianism.
As a citizen, for me the hardest thing is figuring out what steps to take to defend democracy when I feel like everyone’s hair should be on fire (like Applebaum and Klaas). Yet, our leaders, starting with Biden and Garland, have not taken the swift actions needed to bring consequences against insurrectionist organizers—consequences that might deter future attacks. I often work in grassroots movements, but in this case I would love to see leadership from the top!
Applebaum tells us that we could be facing a future of ongoing political violence like “the troubles” in Northern Ireland, a low-grade civil war that lasted 30 years.
My best hopes reside with the January 6 Select Committee. I think they are doing excellent work. They show us what genuine bipartisan action could look like. But, they too are up against a ticking clock, against people who are trying to run out the 261 days we have until Election Day.
I think that Biden is a good man, but a man from another era. The era of being friends with Mitch McConnell is over. And Garland is the biggest disappointment of all….to which I add, astonish me and prove me wrong!